For several months, Tortoise has been investigating big tech companies as if they were countries: holding them to the same standards that we apply to nation states; caring about what they think; understanding what they’re planning to do; figuring out who’s in charge now, and who might be next.

It’s been a huge reporting project. In this week’s podcast, Basia Cummings talks to two of the Tortoise editors behind it, Alexi Mostrous and James Harding.